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It is written: During this period, Scandinavian warriors and traders, called Vikings.
Before removing viking, I ask for 1 single written source indicating that a scandinavian tradesman was called vikings. (History records dating from the actual time, not 1900 misinterpretions) Dan Koehl 14:59, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The article states "The Viking longships were uniquely suited to both deep and shallow waters," which is not true. The boats vikings used is extremely less known, but it can on good grounds be belived that they used the normal longship developed by scandinavian boatbuilders, and primarily used in the scandinavian defence navy, the leiding.
The map below states viking territories, which wasnt viking territories. The country of Sweden as an example, was never, ever viking territory. Dan Koehl 10:44, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- partly agree. That's why I added the cleanup notice. However, if we include extortion of taxes (Danegeld) in Viking activities, Sweden was very much "Viking territory" under Olof of Sweden, dubbed "the Tax-king", who took huge amounts of silver from England to Sweden. You may say, it's piracy on a small scale, but it's imperialism on a large scale, though :o) dab 10:51, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Sweden, as a country, was not viking territory, (Source???????????????????????????????????????????????????)
Olof as king was even expelled from the throne by democratic election of the thing, and he had to go to Västergötland and stay the rest of his days. The swedes elected a new king. If, Olof was so rich, and so powerful, and a "viking", or "wiking-king" in possesion of this "wiing-territory", he would surely have remanined in power, which he didnt, because there was no viking terroritory there at all, it was run as everywehere else in sweden.
I am very glad, you are starting to joke, a little bit though, and that you prably see how I am trying to get both angles of the comlicated topic viking "a chance to speak", but foremost, that a visitor to the Wikipedia can get a balanced, modern view of this topic, fed with neutral information, so they can establish their own opinion based upon facts.
The map is still completely wrong, may I remove it?
Dan Koehl 11:54, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
In what sense the territory of modern Sweden ever was "Viking territory" entirely depends on the definition of "Viking", which is given in the intro and "Etymology" section of Viking.
Olof "inherited the throne of Sweden and became its sole ruler". Just because he had to abdicate, you conclude he was never in power? what gives??
"Sweden, as a country" did not yet exist. History of Sweden: "During the 12th century, Sweden gradually became a unified Christian kingdom". During the Viking Age, there was no "Sweden", only Swedes.
dab 12:20, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- It gives, Dab, that sweden was swedish territory. Nothing else. Kings came and went, but he territory of sweden, was swedish. Not viking territory. The only exception when sweden was not swedish territory, is during the union with denmark. And 1520 it became swedish again.
Of course it was not called sweden, why on earth should we use an english name for our country? The name was Svitjod. The text on the article Stitjod states: Svitjod or SvíÞjóð, is an ancient name for Sweden. It appears in Beowulf as Sweoðeod, and in Jordanes as Suetidi.
- Another written source is tacitus.
- As I already told you, and which can be validated by sources, is that we effectively defended our country against vikings, and therefore it was never a "viking-territory".
- Do you argue this? Do you argue our history? Why?
Dan Koehl 12:37, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
"Sweden":
"Svitjod" = "tribe of the Suiones". Early Swedish Kingdoms: "In those days the kings were warlords rather than kings as we understand that title today, and what was to become Sweden, Norway and Denmark in a modern sense, were a number of petty kingdoms whose borders changed constantly as the kings killed each other. "
tired of cranksitting: dab 08:28, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Cranksitting? Sorry I dont know the definition of this word. If its an insult, it passed by me...
- Dab, you are refering to the viking age. (beginning at between 793 and 800?) During this time the german emperor recieves an offical visit from 2 diplomats from the King of sweden, requesting a bishop for (the already existing) christian society in the town Birka. The town Birka was under protection of the king. This is recorded in documents. The bishop Ansgar arrived in 829, and a chirch was erected, although it was probably one existing before. You may call this king petty, or bananas or whatecer you may choose, but his castle and the envoronment for his central administration is exccavatad, therefore fully proofed of its existence, as well as one of the selected World Heritage Sites. Nowhere, is there stated that this was viking territory. In year 800 this territory was defended against attacking vikings, with and without success.
- I see now that you try to proof that sweden was a viking territory during the viking Age, by means of stating that our kingdom was petty etc. Well this might be true, but a destiny we share with many other countries during this time. That our kingdom in year 800 was not the same type of kingdom as today, is no proof that your map stating sweden as viking territory is correct, that pseudoscientific.
- You have not named a written source for the statement in the map that the kingdom of sweden was viking territory.
- Would you find it correct if I put a map on the page of vikings with some green paint on the areas of the present switzerland and claim that as viking territory (and when you change that start an edit war?)
- Cite from Wikipedia:WikiProject History: Verifiability is an important tool to achieve accuracy, so it is strongly encourage to check facts.
- You seem to be interested (although confused about) scandinavian history. Would it be possible to make a step towards a direction of cooperation rather than a silly war, with insultments and theaths of making revertings of what I write? Dan Koehl 09:11, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Started Wikipedia:WikiProject Scandinavia, Wikipedia:WikiProject Sweden, Wikipedia:WikiProject Vikings in order to get structure. My suggestion is to aviod humiliations, edit wars and threats, and try to focus how to bring the articles to a better quality in connection to those projects. Dan Koehl 11:39, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
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